The Jeffersonian heritage The democrat and the commissar
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The National Association of educational broadcasters presents another in the series of
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transcribed programs on the Jeffersonian heritage. The Democrats
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and the Commissar starring Claude Raines as Thomas Jefferson.
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Are A.
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Spring violets grow on my little mountain.
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My name and my spirit when invoked again I felt the earth
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born out of events with giants.
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I had been a boy my friend and we were there together
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now. And here my wife and children in the simple domesticity of
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the grave.
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Tremor shook the earth with the need of nations and a free man. From
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the shock of tyrants.
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You're.
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Yes. May I direct you I am Mr. Jefferson. Oh yes. You
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were here for the posthumous Committee on revolutionary activities investigation.
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Yes. Go right in there expecting you. Thank you
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Mr. Jefferson Dr. Franklin
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My dear Dr. Franklin How very good to see you again.
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But not unexpected really. History makes such good scenes are to be
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direct other not to recall members of the original company.
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But tell me how why does Dr. Franklin.
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Clay turns into dust.
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To go back to the wire we have recalled the dust moisture and
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with the tears of man returned to Clay and so it is eligible again for human
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service Mr. Jefferson.
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Tell me who is that intense gentleman at the trial table.
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That is the commissar. He has a dedicated look
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and he's a dedicated man. He advocates a curious political
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social economic phenomenon of these times called communism.
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I have heard of it. Even dust is not insensible to the trap of
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I and I you might cancel Dr Franklin your servant.
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Yes I know about this communism. A formula
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a panacea a Mithridates to cure all social
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ills.
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An antidote or politic poisons. And about as a reputable as a
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top goggle for the pox hook behind fences for the desperately
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ignorant.
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But such there be and it has buyers therefore I am grateful to give
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testimony against Charlotte softly and correction Mr Jefferson.
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You're not here to testify against the calmest water. You are here to give a
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testimonial for his Nostrum.
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Preposterous. I thought I was called by my own people not this
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commissar you were replying to him.
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But you will answer to us trusting me. We do. Who
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judges the proceedings man. The good sense of the
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people will lead to justice.
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Paramount him better as part of civilized society is to be taken for the fray.
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When you are by no means friendly. So mistaken for a friendly
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witness by the Communists. I took the stand.
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It was all apology for disturbing my long residence and
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then your name Sir Thomas Jefferson
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residence history occupation
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patriot.
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Mr Jefferson You are the author of the Declaration of
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Independence. I have the honor the abduction of that document was a
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revolutionary act it was. You are aware that this investigation is
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under the auspices of the posthumous committee for revolutionary activity. I am aware
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of it. Why did you write the Declaration of Independence.
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When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one
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people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with
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another and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal
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station to which the laws of nature. And of Nature's God entitle
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them a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires
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that they should declare. The causes which impel them to the separation.
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You knew then that this separation meant rebellion we all did so.
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Rebellion that must mean an appeal to arms shots had been fired and brought already
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spent.
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I revolution then by force for which you all might have been hanged for treason
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had it failed.
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The question is debatable. The treatment of high American
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prisoners by the British as prisoners and not as traitors argues against you.
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You're wrong Dr. Benjamin Franklin and your counsel today
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is on record there saying that if you did not all hang together
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us assuredly you would hang separately.
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I am not sure that I said it but history and it don't seem fondly persuaded that
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I did a good enough epigram if I did not
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father the thing. I feel bound to adopt it.
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Assume that I did say it and please continue your Therefore pledged your
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lives your fortunes and your sacred honor
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in what you asserted was the universal right to revolt.
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Not quite so absolutely as you put it.
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And this is certain of the universal right of men to rebel against authority was
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approved by the unanimous vote of the 13 colonies.
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Is that not true. It was unanimous Indeed however.
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Do you Mr Jefferson believe that all men have a natural right of
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revolution.
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Yes. Then the revolution may be said to constitute the official
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doctrine of the boot of the American republic.
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Yes I didn't go through our minds at the time consider it radical
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objection.
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I think it proper at this time to examine the meaning of the word revolution for
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those people it meant for them and whether it means for us
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overthrow of the government by force overthrow of government by force if necessary
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and political revolution only not social revolution by bloodshed and turn our class against
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class.
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Please Mr Jefferson confine yourself to answering the questions.
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Gladly sir if you will confine yourself only to asking them.
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I ask you conservatives of your time for revolution radical.
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So my most revolutionary associates were conservatives they considered
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revolution drastic and we all considered it a recourse in only the most
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extreme case.
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Do you consider a detour any of the Russian czars an extreme case to Congress.
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Is Mr Jefferson here to discuss the American Revolution and revolution
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itself. Or are you here to defend communism.
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Your honor I ask that Mr Franklin's remark be stricken from the record. Strike it
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out. Thank you.
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Do you consider the tyranny of the Russian czar is an extreme case.
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I do not know Mr. Jefferson. I have your letter
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which you wrote to James Madison when you were in France in seventeen
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eighty seven. Will you examine the MBR look please. Yes sir
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it is a seal which is broken of course. Is that see you familiar.
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Just my personal see Will you tell the committee and judge the history of that.
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Mr. Jefferson willingly on July the 4th
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1776 Dr. Franklin. Mr John Adams and I were
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appointed to bring in a device for the seal of the United States of America.
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The design which we recommended was by Pierre eugène
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you Smitty here a Swiss artist living in Philadelphia. Omit the details
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please. I feel that all merit however humble
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merits immortality continue.
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We are trying to prove a modified version of the designer submitted by Dr. Franklin
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thank you.
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Immortality was required for the sea
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which Dr. Franklin proposed.
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Yes what was it.
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Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Was
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it accepted. No sir. We finally agreed
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on a plot of us whom I will ask you
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to read DeMarco and you will see it was the Jefferson
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rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
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In other words Mr Jefferson you thought enough of the blunt uncompromising motto
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with its revolutionary doctoring to take it for your own motto.
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I did sir.
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Proving therefore not only your approval of rebellion by force but
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recognizing directly sanction of heaven. I repeat. Political
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rebellion prudently sought against insufferable tyranny. Mr.
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Chairman gentlemen of the past you must comedian revolutionary activities.
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It has been my purpose to prove as I have in fact prove that
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my witness Thomas Jefferson acquiesce in spirit with Revolution
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object.
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Mr. Jefferson has sternly qualified those circumstances which alone
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justify rebellion. Political Revolution is against social and
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economic revolution by blood and terror Jack.
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And as against the revolution which merely replaces one tyrant
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with another will get your ruler my objection overruled.
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You know I have make plain that Mr Jefferson by acknowledging rebellion is a begins to God
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recognizes that all who rebel are undecided have the angels.
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Perhaps in a way that conventional religion fails to appreciate.
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I will not have my words warped constantly into an endorsement of terror.
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And the suppression of formal worship of God.
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I am presenting facts to prove that Thomas Jefferson is
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fundamentally in agreement with the Saudi at the Revolution.
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Well the chair permit me to speak without interruption speak. Thomas
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Jefferson. I have qualified my theory of
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rebellion. I have said rebellion against tyranny
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and only as a last resort.
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I have held and I hold forever either or men are endowed by their
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Creator with certain inalienable rights
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that to secure these rights Governments are instituted among Men
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deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever
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any Form of Government becomes destructive of these aliens it is the
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right of the People to alter or abolish it and to institute new
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government new in form and spirit and not I emphasize again
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a new despotism for the old object.
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Exception is the Jefferson surely does not suggest that
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his revolution did not secure social and economic benefits.
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It was assumed that the correction of social and economic abuses would be
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undertaken in the ordinary course of legislation not directed by the
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rebellion itself. I myself returned to Virginia. After
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writing the Declaration of Independence and secured the passage of laws abolishing
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aristocracy in land ownership.
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Then you admit your revolution did secure social and economic
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benefit in the ordinary course of legislation and by Due Process of Law.
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These benefits were realized without a purge and without
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bloodshed.
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And do you thing there is no social or economic sickness in your society today.
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No discrimination racial and religious
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prejudice to name a few.
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I submit. That injustice under our form of government
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established in the fires of political revolution only is less today than
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yesterday and it will be less tomorrow than today. I declare
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that the achievement of political independence and one set of government is the first thing to
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be desired from that. A self-governing people will solve its
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problems medicated in the light of reason and in
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the privilege of the ballot. The right of men to rebel
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is the right to amend or rule themselves not others.
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In this same letter which you wrote James Madison in
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1787 you say quote
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A little rebellion now and then is a good thing and as necessary in the
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political world as storms in the physical.
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What would you call your revolution. A little rebellion is the Jefferson.
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No sir it was a considerable a lot you bet it
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shook the earth from under many kings.
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That is to say a little rebellion is a good thing. A large rebellion
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is a better thing from which it must follow that the world rebellion is the
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ultimate and the best thing a little cupping for preferably patience may be
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good for them.
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Drain all the blood from them they die.
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Strike that from the record you speak a world revolution and governments of
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course enough so I hold sir that your government is a government of force that
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seeks will rebellion strike you that government of force is a government of wolves and with
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sheep I say Strike it.
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But that sir is also in my letter.
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According to your own philosophy if a little of my left eye has some vote you're
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This program has been transcribed using automated software tools, made possible through a collaboration between the American Archive of Public Broadcasting and Pop Up Archive. Please note that no automated transcription is perfect nor is it intended to replace human transcription labor. If you would like to contribute corrections to this transcript, please contact MITH at mith@umd.edu.